Throughout the run of Avengers in comic-book form, there’s been a perception that the “big three” members of the team are founding members Iron Man and Thor and almost-founding member Captain America. In addition to being cornerstones of the team, the three of them have also consistently had long-running titles of their own. (The Hulk has, also, but he was gone after issue #2, and neither the Wasp nor any of Henry Pym’s various identities ever sustained a title long-term.)
So it’s not a surprise that the first three movies after Avengers starred those three. Last week we covered Iron Man 3, and next up were the two characters who were not only titans in the Avengers comics, but who also firmly established the Marvel Cinematic Universe as a thing in 2011 with Thor and Captain America: The First Avenger, two movies that also established the general release-two-movies-a-year pattern (which was upped to three in 2017). First up: Thor: The Dark World.
Kenneth Branagh was unable to return to direct the sequel to his Thor due to the rushed nature of the scheduling, and the film went through a couple of different directors before settling on Alan Taylor. Future Wonder Woman helmer Patty Jenkins was one of those who was set to direct, but she quit over creative differences, and given how amazing Wonder Woman was, this is one case where you really want to see what life is like in that alternate universe.
The story treatment was, as with Thor, written by Don Payne (his last work before he died of bone cancer in 2013; the film is dedicated to his memory), and then several hands came in to work on it, among them Stephen McFeely & Christopher Markus, the co-writers of Captain America: The First Avenger, and who will go on to become prime scripters of the MCU (both Captain America sequels and both Avengers: Infinity War movies), and an uncredited Joss Whedon, who did some script doctoring during filming.
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Ragged Alice
Like Iron Man 3, this story combined fallout from Avengers with an adaptation of a comic book story, in this case carving out a portion of the buildup to Ragnarok from Walt Simonson’s historic 1980s run on Thor (which remains the textbook definition of “definitive” in terms of Marvel’s Asgard) involving Malekith. The dark elf was a creation of Simonson’s who was a minion of Surtur, the demon who would bring about the end of the world. (Surtur himself won’t actually show up in the MCU until Thor: Ragnarok. Malekith in the movies remains unconnected to him.) Also from that storyline is Malekith’s enforcer, Kurse.
Back from Avengers are Chris Hemsworth as Thor, Tom Hiddleston as Loki, Stellan Skarsgård as Selvig, and Chris Evans as a Loki-created illusion of Captain America. Back from Thor are Sir Anthony Hopkins as Odin, Rene Russo as Frigga, Natalie Portman as Jane Foster, Kat Dennings as Darcy, Idris Elba as Heimdall, Jaimie Alexander as Sif, Ray Stevenson as Volstagg, and Tadanobu Asano as Hogun. First appearing here are Zachary Levi as Fandral, replacing Joshua Dallas (who was unavailable due to filming Once Upon a Time; ironically, he replaced Levi in Thor due to Levi being unavailable due to filming Chuck), Christopher Eccleston as Malekith, Adewale Akinnuoye-Abgaje as Kurse, Alice Krige as Eir, Tony Curran as Bor, Jonathan Howard as Ian, Clive Russell as Tyr, Benecio del Toro as the Collector, and Ophelia Lovibond as Carina.
Evans will next appear in Captain America: The Winter Soldier. Hemsworth and Elba will next appear in Avengers: Age of Ultron. Alexander will next appear on two episodes of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Hiddleston, Hopkins, Stevenson, Asano, and Levi will next appear in Thor: Ragnarok. Lovibond and del Toro will next appear in Guardians of the Galaxy.
In addition, the phrase “Infinity Stones” is first spoken in this film, specifically by Volstagg in reference to both the Tesseract and the Aether, as well as four other items that date back to the birth of the universe, as per Odin’s top-of-the-movie voiceover. This will be important later…
“I’ve had a god in my brain; I don’t recommend it”
Thor: The Dark World
Written by Don Payne and Robert Rodat and Christopher Yost and Stephen McFeely & Christopher Markus
Directed by Alan Taylor
Produced by Kevin Feige
Original release date: November 8, 2013
Odin explains the history of the Dark Elves, who existed before there was light in the universe. There were also six forces of energy that mostly took the form of stones, but one that was liquid was the Aether. The Dark Elves, led by Malekith, tried to use the Aether to bring the universe back to darkness during the Convergence, a time when the Nine Realms are all aligned. The Dark Elves were stopped by Odin’s father, Bor, and the forces of Asgard. Bor could not destroy the Aether—the Infinity Stones can’t be destroyed—but he orders it buried deeply.
Loki is brought before Odin, informed that Loki—who is sentenced to be imprisoned in the palace dungeon for his crimes committed both in Thor and Avengers—is only being kept alive out of deference to Frigga’s love for him. Loki claims he only wanted his birthright, to wit, the throne, but Odin tartly points out that his birthright was to die of exposure in Jötunheim, but Odin rescued him. Frigga herself visits Loki in his cell, and it’s obvious that, while Loki has nothing but contempt for Odin, he still loves his mother.
The Bifrost’s destruction in Thor left the Nine Realms in disarray. Once the rainbow bridge was repaired, Thor, Sif, and the Warriors Three have had to restore order. Thor shows up in Vanaheim to help the other four put down an attack by stone creatures. After the battle is won, Hogun, who is from Vanaheim, stays behind to help his people rebuild while Sif, Fandral, and Volstagg accompany Thor back to Asgard.
Another Convergence is approaching, and Malekith awakens, along with his second, Algrim. Algrim sacrifices himself to become the last of the Kursed warriors, and insinuates himself into a caravan of prisoners of war being brought to Asgard.
Due to the imminent Convergence, portals between the Realms are opening up, including one in London. Dr. Jane Foster is there, having been summoned by Dr. Eric Selvig, though Selvig himself has disappeared. (Unbeknownst to them, he was arrested at Stonehenge where he was buck naked and trying to take scientific readings. His experience with the Tesseract in Avengers has not been kind to his mental health.) She’s also still moping over Thor, who hasn’t returned in two years (except for the Battle of New York, and she’s kinda pissed that he didn’t call when he visited for that). She finally arses herself to go on a date, but it’s going poorly, and then Darcy interrupts it by showing that they’re getting a new reading.
Foster and Darcy investigate the reading in an old factory, where they find more portals, and Foster goes through one to where the Aether was buried by Bor. She absorbs it, and then returns to Earth.
While she was gone, she was invisible to Heimdall, and Thor goes to Earth to investigate. When Foster reappears, Darcy informs her that she’s been gone for five hours—for Foster, no time at all has passed. Foster is glad to see Thor but also pissed that he hasn’t been in touch.
When the police try to take her in, they’re repelled by the Aether. Concerned, Thor brings her to a healer on Asgard. Odin is not happy to see a mortal in the Realm Eternal, but changes his mind when the Aether attacks the guards he instructs to take her away.
Algrim, who is now Kurse, stages a prison break. Thor, Volstagg, Fandral, and Sif try to contain the prisoners, but it’s a two-front attack, as Heimdall tries to stop Malekith’s forces from invading Asgard. He is only partly successful—Kurse is able to destroy the shield Heimdall raises. Frigga protects Foster with her life, Thor arriving moments too late, though he does permanently scar Malekith with lightning in retaliation for killing his mother.
Malekith and Kurse escape in a ship that can cloak itself so thoroughly, even Heimdall can’t see it. As long as the Aether is on Asgard—and Odin has Tyr imprison Foster—Malekith will return, and Odin’s plan is to wage war on Malekith the likes of which the Nine Realms have never seen.
Thor believes this to be a bad plan, one that will cost many Asgardian lives. A grief-stricken Odin won’t listen to reason, so he conspires with Sif, Fandral, Volstagg, and Heimdall. Thor wants to take Foster to Svartalfheim, where Malekith will extract the Aether from Foster and then Thor will destroy it, without sacrificing thousands of Asgardian warriors. But they can’t use the Bifrost without Odin knowing, so Thor plans to free Loki, who knows other ways out of Asgard (as established back in Thor). Thor makes it clear that he doesn’t trust him, but knows that Loki—who trashed his cell in fury when he learned of Frigga’s death—wants revenge for his mother’s death. Thor makes it clear that he’ll kill Loki if and when the trickster betrays Thor. To make it clear how unliked Loki is at this point, Foster punches him (“That’s for New York!”) and both Sif and Volstagg separately threaten to kill him if he betrays Thor.
They steal one of Malekith’s crashed ships and use it as a decoy. Sif, Volstagg, and Fandral hold off various members of the Einherjar to allow them time to get to Svartalfheim via one of the Loki’s secret exits.
When they arrive, Loki stabs Thor, tosses him down an incline, cuts off his hand, and offers Foster to Malekith. However, this is all a ruse to get close enough to Malekith without a fight—as soon as he extracts the Aether, Thor’s hand “reappears” (in truth, Loki drops the illusion), and Thor hits the Aether with the full force of Mjolnir.
This does absolutely no good, as the Aether reconstitutes itself and is absorbed by Malekith, who then departs, leaving Kurse and his Dark Elves behind to battle Thor and Loki. Thor saves Loki’s life at one point, and then Loki does likewise, killing Kurse in the bargain, and also losing his own life, seemingly.
Thor is devastated by Loki’s death, and he and Foster are now trapped in Svartalfheim—until Foster gets a phone call from her erstwhile dinner date. There’s a portal nearby (through which a cell phone signal can apparently go through), and they go through it to return to Earth.
Darcy has liberated Selvig from the psychiatric institute they’d put him in (where he was explaining many-worlds theory to a bunch of the inmates, one of whom looks just like Stan Lee), and together, Selvig and Foster jigger the former’s scanning devices so that they can manipulate the portals. Selvig has also figured out that Greenwich is the central point where Malekith is likely to use the Aether at the Convergence. Selvig, Foster, Thor, Darcy, and Darcy’s intern, a befuddled young man named Ian Boothby, place the scanners at various points in Greenwich, and when Malekith’s ship appears, Thor fights him. Their fight takes them all over England as well as to Jötunheim, Vanaheim, Svartalfheim, and back again. (One of the monsters from Jötunheim goes through a portal to Greenwich and eats one of the Dark Elves.) They just have to delay Malekith until the Convergence passes, and eventually they’re able to teleport him back to Svartalfheim and then crush him with his own ship.
The day is saved. Thor declines Odin’s offer of the throne, as he doesn’t want the compromises that come with being a king—he’d rather protect the Nine Realms as a hero. He then returns to Earth to smooch Foster a lot—but it isn’t Odin who he talked to, but rather Loki. The trickster faked his death, returned to Asgard disguised as a warrior whom Odin sent to Svartalfheim to learn what happened (one shudders to think what happened to that poor schlub), and then replaced Odin on the throne of Asgard, disguised as the Allfather. (We’ll find out what happened to Odin himself in Thor: Ragnarok.)
Sif and Volstagg take the Aether to the Collector, one of the elders of the universe. Asgard already has the Tesseract, and storing two Infinity Stones in one place is dangerous. After they leave, the Collector mutters, “One down, five to go.”
Meanwhile, the frost monster is still loose in Greenwich…
“If you even think about betraying him—”
“You’ll kill me? Evidently, there will be a line…”
Oftentimes when people list their least favorite or worst MCU movies, this one is almost always right there toward the top (or, I guess, bottom), and I always thought that was unfair. To some extent it’s a testament to the quality of the MCU, as there are very few bad ones (though I’d rank the two Iron Man sequels, both Ant-Man movies, and The Incredible Hulk below this at the very least). But this movie deserves a great deal of credit for being an excellent companion piece to Thor, a very strong followup to Avengers, a fine statement on heroism versus leadership, and a beautiful continuation of the fraught brother-brother dynamic between Thor and Loki, magnificently played by Chris Hemsworth and Tom Hiddleston.
(Also: the stone creatures who attack Vanaheim at the top of the movie are pretty much the Stone Creatures from Saturn that Thor fought in his first appearance in Journey Into Mystery #83 back in 1962. That’s just cool…)
The movie is not without its flaws, of course, starting with the bad guy. I mentioned this in the comments to Iron Man 3, and it’s worth repeating here: the Marvel Cinematic Universe’s reputation for bland villains is truly an artifact of Phase 2. With the exception of Mickey Rourke’s ineffective Whiplash in Iron Man 2, Phase 1 has fantastic villains, starting with the obvious one who’s also in this movie: Hiddleston’s Loki, who makes both Thor and Avengers shine. On top of that, you’ve got great menacing performances from Jeff Bridges as Stane in Iron Man, William Hurt as Ross and Tim Roth as Blonsky in The Incredible Hulk, and Hugo Weaving as the Red Skull in Captain America: The First Avenger.
However, the first two Phase 2 movies blow it in terms of villains, and this is especially frustrating given that the one in this movie is played by one of the finest actors currently drawing breath, the man responsible for Doctor Who‘s 21st-century revival and success, Christopher Eccleston. And he’s joined by another excellent actor in Adewale Akinnuoye-Abgaje.
Unfortunately, both Eccleston and Akinnuoye-Abgaje are (a) slathered in a ton of makeup and (b) forced to speak a made-up language, and both factors deter from their performances. Both actors are known for their facility with facial expressions, a quality they’re denied in these roles. Both of them also have great voices—tellingly, many of the actors who do particularly well in tons of makeup, your J.G. Hertzlers and your Tony Todds and your Doug Joneses and your Andy Serkises and your Djimon Honsous, have superlative voices—but this other hallmark is equally muted by the Dark Elf tongue they’re stuck with. It’s not a coincidence that Eccleston’s most effective scene is the one where he kills Frigga, in which he speaks English the whole time and is way scarier than he is exchanging nonsense with Akinnuoye-Abgaje.
Sadly, that’s another of the film’s flaws, the fridging of Frigga. (Frigg-ing?) Rene Russo finally gets a chance to shine after being criminally underused in Thor, and then they kill her off in order to motivate the male characters. Sigh. At least she puts up a good fight, and I love the fact that her declaration that she’ll never reveal Foster’s location is met with a respectful, “I believe you” by Malekith before Kurse stabs her.
The original notion was to keep Hiddleston out of the movie and focus on Thor vs. Malekith, but Hiddleston’s stellar work in Avengers led the producers to changing their mind, and this was very much a change for the better, as the best parts of the movie belong to Hiddleston. As with Avengers, some of the strongest bits are his one-on-one interactions with folks, whether his bitter exchanges with Odin and his tragic ones with Frigga at the beginning, or his banter with Thor during the climax (I especially love their backing-and-forthing as Thor flies Malekith’s ship with inconsistent skill through Asgard), not to mention the angry comments and snarky rejoinders he indulges in with Foster, Sif, and Volstagg. His betrayal in Thor still stings with the Asgardians, as does his partnering with the Chitauri to invade Earth, and his former friends won’t let him forget that.
Loki remains one of the strongest characters in the MCU, as his bitterness, his anguish, and his spectacular selfishness is all on superb display here. But the best is the realization that he loves Frigga, seen especially in their conversation in his cell.
In addition, Thor’s support in Asgard remains strong, as Zachary Levi, Ray Stevenson, Idris Elba, and especially Jaimie Alexander all knock it out of the park. (For some reason, Tadanobu Asano’s role is limited to the early scenes on Vanaheim, which is a disservice to one of the few Asian actors in this franchise.)
I also like that, having had Thor arrive and have to deal with the strangeness of Earth in Thor, in this sequel it’s Foster arriving and having to deal with the strangeness of Asgard. I really enjoyed the continuation of the science-on-the-fly dynamic of Foster, Darcy, and Selvig (and Ian), with the added bonus of Foster moping over Thor and Selvig still suffering the effects of being possessed by Loki via the Tesseract. (“Your brother isn’t coming, is he?” “Loki is dead.” “Thank God!”) Stellan Skarsgård is hilarious, providing a good mix of Selvig’s crumbling sanity without losing sight of the scientist’s nobility and brilliance. And I’m always happy to watch Kat Dennings snark. (“Give me your shoe!”)
What I love most about the movie, though, is that it is in this film, truly, that Thor gains the maturity and wisdom that Odin felt he lacked in Thor. Odin is particularly bloodthirsty in this one, making it quite clear he’ll sacrifice the life of every Asgardian warrior in order to avenge Frigga, but it’s Thor’s plan that will result in much less death. In the end, Thor declares that he’d rather be a hero than a king, because a king has to make decisions like the one Odin made and Thor would rather make the decisions a hero makes: to save lives, not take them. It’s a prototypical superheroic moment, one of the best in the MCU and the movie deserves tremendous credit for it. (This despite the fact that it isn’t Odin Thor is really talking to, but rather a disguised Loki. In a nice touch, Sir Anthony Hopkins’s body language in this scene is far more relaxed than he usually is as Odin, a clever hint that this isn’t really the Allfather.)
While The Dark World has many problems, it’s still an excellent continuation of the character arcs for both Thor and Loki, and sets up future adventures quite well.
Next week, Captain America settles into life in the 21st century and finds out he’s not the only Howling Commando who made it this far in Captain America: The Winter Soldier. Also a reminder to one and all in case you missed it that during the final week of 2018, this rewatch covered Red Sonja, the 1990 Dick Tracy, and the Men in Black trilogy in a special look back. Check them out!
Keith R.A. DeCandido has written three novels featuring Marvel’s version of the Norse gods, the Marvel’s Tales of Asgard trilogy, including Thor: Dueling with Giants, Sif: Even Dragons Have Their Endings, and Warriors Three: Godhood’s End. The trilogy is available in a single omnibus from Joe Books. In addition, Keith has written a cycle of urban fantasy short stories set in Key West, in which many of the Norse gods, including Thor, Loki, and Odin, play a large role. A guide to all the stories can be found here, with the next one coming out in 2019: “Rán for Your Life” in the Altrix Books anthology Unearthed.
Another great rewatch post, Keith. Thanks.
I’ve given this movie and Iron Man 3 both some thought. Neither of them lived up to my expectations when I saw them in the theater. Yet if I rewatch them now, I enjoy them both a good deal. I was trying to figure out why that is, when it dawned on me:
Neither of the first two movies after the Avengers are…well…neither are the Avengers.
By that I mean we switch from a great team-up movie to a solo movie. But I think I still wanted the team-up. I wanted to know why Iron Man wouldn’t call Captain America/Black Widow/Hawkeye and maybe even SHIELD for help when he found out about the Mandarin and all that (Thor and Hulk I can understand why he wouldn’t involve). With all credit to Don Cheadle’s War Machine, he ain’t the Avengers.
Similarly this movie makes me wonder why Thor wouldn’t call upon the Avengers for help, especially once he realizes the final battle is going to be fought on Midgaard.
Of course the reason neither of these movies is an Avengers movie is clear in the real world. In-universe, I have always given both movies a pass because the events happen so quickly that it can be argued that the heroes wouldn’t have time to call the rest of the Avengers.
But I’m pretty sure that’s why I had issues with these two movies the first time. Despite knowing the logic of it all, my comic fanboy wanted more.
Captain America: Winter Soldier was much more satisfying on that front – but I’ll wait until krad covers that one.
Kalvin: I think it was more of an issue here than in IM3. As Rhodes said in the latter movie, the government specifically didn’t want the Avengers involved, and Stark has enough issues that I can see him not asking for help (plus, when he was in Tennessee, he wasn’t in much of a position to ask for help). But in the climax of this one, yeah, it would’ve been nice to see an Avenger or three show up to pitch in against the Dark Elves…..
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
I enjoyed it as well as the follow up on Agents of SHIELD.
“Where is the Asgard God of cleaning up after yourself?”
It’s a fun movie; maybe the least ambitious of the Phase 2 movies, but the one that actually has some of the best character development. I think it’s right that the villains are the problem here; by virtue of the language and the makeup they can’t communicate effectively with the main cast, and they’re not visually interesting enough to make up for it. Their plot also isn’t interesting–they just want to kill everyone, basically, ho hum. So the drama has to be between Thor and Loki; good thing that Hiddleston and Hemsworth are so good together.
I think Hemsworth remains underappreciated; as good as Hiddleston is, the thing that makes Loki work is that Thor loves him even though Loki doesn’t deserve it. It takes Hemsworth to make us believe that and really feel how painful it is to care about someone who is undeserving and who is just going to hurt you again. I think Ragnarok loses sight of this a bit.
Colin R: We won’t be getting to it until August, but I will have many many many things to say about Ragnarok. It’s a movie I both love and hate in equal measure….
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
@2 krad: You’re right on all counts. And my brain knows all of that. But my heart refused to see the rationale while watching the movie, I think, and that’s why (despite enjoying them a lot while seeing them) I left the theater a little disappointed after both of them.
Maybe I just expected/wanted a post-credits teaser that showed that Cap, Widow and Hawkeye had been on their way to London in a Quinjet when Fury called and said “Nevermind, Thor took care of it I guess.”
See I don’t get why people love Ragnarok so much when that was just the MCU giving up on a character they were struggling with and just went with mass-popular “slapstick superhero” character like Guardians of the Galaxy. Whether you love or hate Dark World, it’s truer to Thor’s character and comic plots. It has better rewatch value than Ragnarok, definitely.
I agree that this is a good movie. Maybe it’s not as good as its predecessor or The Avengers, but that’s a high bar, so it’s still good enough in itself — and much better than Ragnarok.
It also contains perhaps the funniest moment in the Thor series, when Thor hangs his hammer on Jane’s coat rack (a moment improvised by Hemsworth, IIRC). Although the physics of a coat hook holding up that hammer’s supposed weight (as opposed to that of the film prop) is questionable. But I figure it stayed there because Thor wanted it to.
I was a bit disappointed that the Agents of SHIELD tie-in to this movie was so cursory — Coulson’s team starts off cleaning up the mess in London, but then gets sidetracked by a mission that by sheer coincidence involves an unrelated Asgardian artifact. It would’ve worked better if the artifact had been part of the wreckage, or perhaps discovered because the higher-dimensional energies from the battle activated it, or something.
I don’t think this movie is bad, but on the other hand, I don’t feel the desire to rewatch it as much as the other MCU movies, though it WAS nice seeing Agents of SHIELD have to deal with the aftermath.
I also read somewhere that, as a tribute to Star Wars, which Disney also acquired around this time, every Phase 2 movie has someone losing a hand or an arm, as Thor does in this movie. (I don’t remember who it was in IM3. One of the Extremis soldiers?)
And I agree with you about the Crime of restricting Chris Eccleston’s facial expressions. GI Joe was smart enough to not put him in the Destro mask until the end of the movie.
And shame on you for not mention Ron Perlman in your list of Actors with Distinctive Voices Who Do Particularly Well in Heavy Make-Up.
Is it just me, or was Thor more badass in Infinity War than he was in in any of his solo movies? Though he had some good moments in Thor: Ragnarok, mainly when realizing that he was more than his hammer. But after watching this movie, I found myself wishing I could see a fully unleashed Thor. It wasn’t until Infinity War that I finally saw something of the God of Thunder.
LazerWulf: Oh, I left out a lot of people from that list. Hell, I could’ve included half the cast of Deep Space Nine alone………………….
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
See, I always liked Loki 3: The Dar World. Granted, I’m a little biased because Thor is my favorite Marvel character, but I love Thor and Loki in this, as well as Loki and Frigga (the whole trashing of his cell, and Thor realizing that Loki is covering up his true feelings with an illusion gets me every time).
Also, you know how most of the MCU movies are superheroes + some other genre? Winter Soldier is superheroes + Cold War thriller, Guardians is superheroes + space opera, etc. This is superheroes + Doctor Who adventure. The evil scheme is basically Douglas Adams’s Krikketmen and it all ends with an Immortal space being from an advanced civilization with his human companions stopping an alien invasion in London.
And they even got a Doctor Who actor in it.
So while it gets a lot of hate, I actually like Doctor Thor and the Dark Krikketelves.
As for why he doesn’t call the other Avengers, I get the feeling that things were happening a bit too quickly, and the fact that the Battle was in London whereas most of the Avengers are US-based, meant there wasn’t time to ask for help.
Yeah, I’ve never understood why this one got so much flak — personally, I might like it more than the first Thor, but that might be because I’m a sucker for spending more time in Asgard & the rest of the Nine Realms vs. spending time in, say, a small town in New Mexico.
One of my big nitpicks during Aquaman was that Superman really should have stepped in once the big wave happened. They really could have used a he’s in outer space news story thrown in those news reports
I didn’t start appreciating Thor until Ragnarok. I need to revisit the first two Thor movies.
I agree that this movie is underrated, I watched it recently as I was showing my wife all the older MCU films, and she enjoyed it a lot more than others in the franchise. I think the Thor/Loki dynamic is so strong and the death of Loki in Infinity War having such resonance can be traced to their teaming in The Dark World.
I also think one of the most emotional of any MCU moments is the Viking funeral for Frigga and all those who died during the battle, it is a grand, sweeping scene that was done beautifully. I can watch this film many times and always catch some small nuance or moment I missed before, and enjoy the film a lot.
This is my favorite of the 20 (or so) Marvel Studios movies. (I can’t wait until you get to Ant-Man and AM&tW. I love both of those, and it appears that you don’t!)
Rich: I actually like Ant-Man & The Wasp, but I have serious issues with it that trace back to the first film. We’ll reach Ant-Man in this rewatch in February, at which point I will explain my disdain. :)
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
@15 Maybe he did. The big wave of ships and garbage hit everywhere at once, and we only saw the results via Arthur’s viewpoint and a few news reports. Arthur and Mera almost immediately went into the ocean from that point so what happens next on the land isn’t shown. I was surprised that Sicily or whatever island they were on to find the location of the super trident showed no damage even with the huge cliffs.
A request: Please refrain from spoiling Aquaman in the Thor thread. Not all of us have seen it yet.
@15 He was getting lip surgery.
I agree that this is an underrated movie. I put it near the bottom of the MCU (better than IM2 or Hulk, at worst) but it’s still quite enjoyable to watch.
I am not sorry that they didn’t try to cram the Avengers into this movie. I think part of the alchemy of the MCU has been that it has been able to cultivate individual ecosystems for their characters, each with its own storytelling logic, feel, and drama. Other characters can be mixed in, but they have to adapt to the logic of the story. Part of the joke when Loki turns into Steve Rogers is that Captain America feels totally out of place in Asgard.
Sure, they could have had a throwaway line like “Iron Man is en route,” but would that really add to this movie?
This was the first (and so far only) MCU movie that I actually went out to a theater to see. Eccleston as the villain was a large part of my decision to not wait for this one on disc or streaming, as he was always my favorite Doctor. Then I actually saw the movie. Imagine my disappointment. If ever there was a textbook example of an actor doing the best he possibly can with a humdrum role, this is it. Not just the aforementioned problems with the makeup and made-up language, but Malekith had absolutely no character development either. The role was horribly written.
I remember watching this in theaters and thinking it was better than the first…..Years later not so much. It leaves so much wanting for me. As much as Thor and Loki are great Jane, the rest of the earth bound crew, and the Villians are just alright at best. You can tell Natallie Portman signed on to work with Pattie Jenkins then was left stuck when Patti quit after a few months. The Darcy character feels now like the Joke has run out 5 min into the movie. Looking back, had Selvig been the one to get the Aether and remove Jane and Darcy, this movie works better.
8. The weight of the Hammer is variable. It actually doesn’t weigh much. You could put it in a scale and it would weigh as much as any hammer that size. Much like a Green Lantern ring, The hammer simply chooses whom can use( ie lift) it.
Isn’t this film’s plot supposed to be taking place right about the very same time as Iron Man 3 and Winter Soldier? I always assumed that was the reason there weren’t Avengers crossing over between these films. That and the Shield upheaval would prevent any such possibility*.
*That and also the fact that it’s pretty much impossible for regular human beings, even fellow Avengers, to travel the required distance to Asgard and the Nine Realms; we see at the end of Infinity War that Stark is pretty much stranded on that particular world).
Regardless, I admit to recalling very little of this film. To me, this film’s biggest sin is that it’s instantly forgettable. Not offensive, just plain forgettable.
I’ve never seen Doctor Who before. I first took notice of Christopher Eccleston when I saw The Leftovers. Season 1, episode 3 was built around his character, and that’s when I had the pleasure to witness just how magnetic he can be with his mere presence. So, I was pretty surprised to learn he had been a part of Dark World a year before. Hiding him behind animation and prosthetics did him no favors. And the character was a stock villain at its core (having these many writers with differing viewpoints couldn’t possibly help).
The only scenes I do remember from memory is the London sequence where Jane tries to track him down. I recall Frigga’s death, Loki’s “death” and the twist ending. I couldn’t recall anything else. It’s how little of an impression this particular film left me. I probably would have enjoyed this entry more had the really dramatic scenes landed with more of an impact. The story never manages to generate the same empathy and emotion that the first film did.
They place Jane Foster in jeopardy for a good portion of the Asgard scenes, but it never goes anywhere. This would have been the opportunity to kill her off (double fridging notwithstanding). Portman was already vocal about Marvel’s dismissal of Jenkins (who would go on to do superlative work on Wonder Woman). Instead, she’s relegated to an offscreen breakup and a mere mention on Ragnarok.
They couldn’t strip Thor of his protector status again, and they were saving Mjolnir’s destruction for Ragnarok. The result is a film that doesn’t really move the protagonist in terms of character arc (losing Frigga is the only result).
Overall, a mixed bag.
@26 I’m sure Portman was signed to a contract with sequels factored in. She might have been disappointed Jenkins left but there’s no way she was signed on with the understanding Jenkins would direct the sequel.
I honestly thought Thor was dead as a film franchise after this stinker, I definitely don’t see the redeeming qualities a lot of you see in it. It made me hate a character I used to like in the first film (Jane Foster), the main plot was awful, the humor wasn’t as on point without Thor’s fish-out-of-water experiences outside of Asgard, Hemsworth’s story felt super cliche and I don’t feel like they gave him much to work with . . . and unlike Downey Jr., while I do think Hemsworth is good he’s not entertaining enough to save a bad movie. The only good parts I remember are whenever Loki is on screen, and whenever Darcy gets to bring some levity to a situation, but they just don’t do enough to redeem the movie by themselves.
On the bright side though, if this movie wasn’t such a failure they might not have been willing to take a chance like they did on the stylistic change in tone in Thor Ragnarok. I guess I can be thankful for that, even if I find how wasted Eccleston is here the biggest “boring villain” crime the MCU has ever committed.
Overall I enjoy this movie, but there’s one scene that just ruins it for me every single time because I live in London.
Thor gets on a Circle Line tube at Charing Cross and is told that he needs to take that train three stops to get back to Greenwich. Which is impossible – those lines don’t intersect, and Charing Cross isn’t even on the Circle line!. All they needed to do was put him on the Jubilee line and we’d all be happy, but no. They are even using a Jubilee line train!
(It’s because the old Jubilee line went through Charing Cross and is used nowadays for filming – it’s the same train as in Skyfall. You’d think they’d do some token set dressing though to get the colours right.)
I think I’d rate this film a 6-7 on the Marvel scale. It isn’t nearly as flawed as IM2, but the villains as you say are criminally wasted. They just feel flat and unintimidating when they should be incredibly powerful. That being said I did like how these were the last Dark Elves left standing, which gave them a certain pathos, and they all acted intelligently instead of juggling the idiot ball.
This one was ok. On a scale of Empire Strikes Back to Attack of the Clones it was a Rogue One for me. Solidly in the lower half of MCU movies, but not bad by any stretch. When it came out (it was the first MCU movie I saw in theaters) I thought it was the second weakest film (I did not like Iron Man 3), but it was still better than most things I’d seen that year, or that decade.
The film is hurt by the villains, but also by Natalie Portman’s lack of chemistry with Chris Hemsworth. I’m not sure she wanted to be in the film. They were much better together in the first one.
The next movie is still the highlight of the entire MCU for me.
@26/Kasiki: “You could put it in a scale and it would weigh as much as any hammer that size.”
Exactly my point. A real metal hammer of that size, as opposed to a foam rubber film prop, would probably be way too heavy for a mere wooden coathook to hold up. I love the gag, but it does kind of give away how light the prop hammer is.
@30/Mayhem: It’s an alternate universe where magic and alien gods exist. No reason it couldn’t also be an alternate universe where those tube lines connect.
I’ve only seen this movie once, but I definitely want to revisit it. I like the Thor movies as a trilogy, and the wherefore is a little complicated.
I loved Thor for its language, its drama and comedy, how well it blended the “Shakespeare in the park” feel with the grittiness of Jane studying astral phenomena in NM and getting derailed by Phil. All of that. Thor gave us a hero that was beautiful and well-spoken, a fantasy hero that fit into any era, I loved him.
And then Dark World comes and pulls back the curtain in Oz a tiny bit. We get a little more of the story of Nine Realms and the understanding of how that cocky jock and his mysterious brother fit into the universe at large, even as we’re fitting this into the narrative of the avengers arc. Also, I do love Hiddleston’s Loki, and how his long game is so epic. Those flashes of compassion that lead him to do things that you don’t expect, the depths of his ambitious selfishness that also surprise. Love it.
Here I have to interject: I am exactly the target audience for the MCU. I’ve never read the comic books at all and have come to these stories with a blank slate, ready to absorb any story I’m told. I’m also remarkably terrible at guessing how things will turn out, and so twists and surprises that are so obvious to some simply delight me.
That said, the trailers for Ragnorok left a bad taste in my mouth. I didn’t think I was going to like it at all,because it didn’t look at all like the Thor movies I had loved. BUT. But I ended up adoring it, because it was exactly the film that the MCU needed in that gap. I could not really believe that Thor lived in the same galaxy as the Guardians, and Ragnorok was that bridge. It peeled back the veneer of the beautiful perfect Asgard to show us the truth of a broken universe. I could believe that Thanos wanted to Snap it. The movie drove Thor to a place where he could meet Peter Quill and I could buy it. He is the bridge between the Guardians and the Avengers, and we needed his trilogy of movies to make it a believable story.
Loving this rewatch, it’s very fun to go through the movies and hash them out a bit. Thanks, Krad!
For me, this story has some good character moments that are almost, but not quite entirely, lost in a bland and forgettable main plot. Malekith struck me as the worst cliche of a villain with no credible motivation whatsoever and I had literally forgotten Kurse was even in the film.
I also thought the film did not provide a satisfactory explanation for how the Odin of the first film, who was weary of needless bloodshed and wanting to resolve old conflicts, not re-fight them, becomes the Odin of this film. Grief, sure, but that’s too simple. There are hints of a better story, which could have enriched Thor’s and Loki’s arcs (and avoided the need to fridge Frigga) by considering why the resurgence of Bor’s foe might be pushing Odin’s buttons.
I don’t think Odin really makes sense. He’s just a collection of mannerisms for Thor to overcome.
One of those movies that seems to exist solely for the purpose of repeat showings in places where televisions are sold. A very elaborate screensaver.
This movie is fun, entertaining and you’ll have a few laughs and tear up a little when Thor’s mom dies. Yeah, it’s the worst of the MCU movies to me – but that’s kind of like saying vanilla is your least favorite flavor of ice cream, in that it’s still pretty damn good.
This film entertained me a bit in the theater, but it has nothing remarkable. And the Malekith is awful. One thing I remember taking away is that his use of the stone reminded me of Darkstar in the Marvel comics.
I think I should give it another chance.
Tony Curran? I did not remember he’d played a Marvel character before Punisher!
@krad: you wrote “Benecio” del Toro; it’s “Benicio”.
@7 – Jeannie: The comedy in Ragnarok is there to lessen the fact that it’s a very dark film, with lots of losses for Thor, and it does it effectively, at least for me and others.
@10 – Austin: That’s because it’s only towards the ending of Ragnarok that Thor remembers he’s not “the god of hammers”, but “the god of lightning”. And then, with a weapon forged by himself, in Infinity War he can cut loose.
Many consider this is the most unremarkable movie in the MCU canon, and they would be right.
This movie isn’t bad per say but it’s aggressively average. Tom Hiddleston saves it from being a total wash though.
MaGnUs: Tony Curran has never played the Punisher. Ray Stevenson, who plays Volstagg, played him in Punisher: War Zone.
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
@40, Tony Curran was in the first season of Punisher, I think that’s what MaGnUs meant.
In terms of calling in The Avengers in this movie, as well as in Winter Soldier, The Avengers of the MCU, at this point, aren’t a team that’s around. They all head off on their own and have to be tracked down. They aren’t exactly on the government’s speed dial at this point in time so it made sense they weren’t there, even though seeing them fight the Dark Elves would have been cool.
Bobby
@38/MaGnUs, Tony Curran was also in Blade 2, as Priest.
Leaden.
That’s the best word I can think of to describe this movie – always weighted down and never allowed to fly. I saw it in the theater once and have no desire to see it again.
The main impression I retain of the visuals is dim, dull, drab. This wasn’t ‘The Dark World’ – it was ‘The Dull World’. Color palette – muted, shades of grey and black dominant, even primary colors suppressed and tarnished. Lighting was mostly dim, or in unhealthy-looking colors like failing fluorescents mixed with mercury vapor.
The plot was at best an excuse to shuffle characters around the board like chess pieces, with no sense that events were developing naturally from prior actions, with everything happening because of authorial fiat, and without the energy to make me not notice.
As others have pointed out, the villains were flat and one-note, without any notable characterization and without the kind of expressive actions that could make up for said lack.
I like Portman as an actress, but Jane Foster here made almost no impression on me. I liked Selvig in Avengers, but here he crossed the line into ‘pathetic’, in the very embarrassing sense.
About the only positive things I can find to say about the move are Darcy’s portrayal, Frigga’s presence, and the interaction between Thor and Loki.
@41/BonHed: Tony Curran was not in The Punisher; he was in episode 4 of season 2 of Daredevil, where the Punisher was introduced. It was Castle’s first season in the MCU, but it was not the first season of his namesake show.
@42/Bobby Nash: I always got the impression that the Avengers pretty much disbanded after the first movie, then came together again after The Winter Soldier happened and Hydra stole Loki’s Scepter from SHIELD, leading to the start of Age of Ultron where the Avengers have finally tracked down the Scepter.
And Tony Curran was “Man in Black Suit Agent” in X-Men: First Class. (Which I was a little surprised to remember that First Class came out a few years before Dark World. Time is funny.)
He’ll always be Vincent Van Gogh to me.
#47: Exactly! I didn’t recognize him when watching, but a few hours later while checking IMDB to see where I’d seen a totally different actor before, I saw Curran’s name and said to my then-girlfriend now-wife, “Oh, Odin’s father was Van Gogh.”
@27: For the most part, I believe that the MCU films are supposed to happen around the same time they come out (with a few exceptions, like IM3 coming out May ’13, but set at Christmas, most likely Christmas ’12, or Guardians 2, which came out 3 years after Guardians 1, but is set only a few months after). You can usually track the progress through Agents of SHIELD, who had a little over half a season between the episode where they’re cleaning up London, and the episode where they deal with the Fallout of CA:TWS.
@49 phase 1 happened in a very congested time frame. a companion comic out around the first avengers has fury”s week of hell showing incredible hulk, Thor, Iron man 2, and the discovery of steve rogers in the ice all happened within a week. The rest happens in a weird state in the order but not in the same time frame of release with the exception of dr strange and the guardians movies.
Does anyone else think that Chris Hemsworth looks strange with his beard dyed blond?
Thank you. I’ve never understood the lack of love that this one gets, either. I enjoyed it a lot. For one thing, it does a great job of channeling Simonson’s art. Also, many of the effects are great. Thor whipping through portals is a really thrilling sequence. Yes, the great Christopher Eccleston deserved better and, yes, Frigga’s fate was lazy writing, but overall it’s one of my favorite MCU movies. In the interests of full disclosure, Thor & Doctor Strange have always been by a pretty big margin my favorite Marvel characters. Growing up I was more of a DC guy, but they were the exceptions. But since I like the character of Thor so much, maybe I would have been annoyed if this had been a bad movie. It wasn’t.
@45. As did I, Christopher. Fury’s monologue at the end of Avengers says if they need them, we’ll find them. They’ll come back.
@42/Bobby Nash: I always got the impression that the Avengers pretty much disbanded after the first movie, then came together again after The Winter Soldier happened and Hydra stole Loki’s Scepter from SHIELD, leading to the start of Age of Ultron where the Avengers have finally tracked down the Scepter.
I may have a soft spot for Asgard, but I appreciate the uneven wonders of The Dark World far more than the bleak and dysfunctional narcissism of Ironman 2 and Ironman 3.
@44. tbutler: “The main impression I retain of the visuals is dim, dull, drab…”
After directing 5 or 6 episodes of Game of Thrones, I wonder if that grim aesthetic is what affected the style of this film. The negative response seems to have affected Alan Taylor’s career, until he returned to GoT in 2017.
I agree with those above who mentioned Frigga’s funeral. It was very affecting, as was her heroism in protecting Jane.
Natalie Portman must have bailed out early on this film because the woman Hemsworth is passionately kissing on the balcony after Thor’s return is his wife.
There are a few funny outtakes where Hemsworth is bobbling the supposedly very heavy hammer.
I would give this a B letter grade. It’s certainly not the worst of the batch, but I see why some where underwhelmed. I also enjoyed Ragnarok quite a bit. It was a needed course correction after the dourness of this one. It also shows progression in power and character that almost suggest his potential was limited by his own self-conception (which will bear fruit in Infinity War). Looking forward to hearing krad’s issues with it.
@12. Thom: they ended up foisting the Doctor Who parallels on Doctor Strange by giving him the time stone. Then again, Sam Jackson dropped a SPOILER….
by referring to Captain Marvel’s time travel abilities. This could get tricky if Marvel over-relies on this to undo what Thanos has wrought.
Another one that was enjoyable but not spectacular. Malekith isn’t a particularly decent villain and it doesn’t help his cause that the audience are all looking at Loki anyway. Still, his antagonism does mean we get the joy of a Thor/Loki team-up which, apparently, ends not in betrayal but in Loki’s sacrifice, although there’s ultimately a sting in the tale there.
@5–KRAD: August?! Wow, now I’m trying to figure out what’s left in the rewatch. I’ve come up with:
–12 more MCU films, plus three more by mid-July.
–6 DC films, plus Shazam! in April.
–2 Deadpool films.
–2 Michael Bay Ninja Turtles films.
–the 2015 Fantastic Four abomination.
—Venom
—Hellboy reboot in April, and Dark Phoenix in June, assuming they don’t send it back for even more reshoots.
Is there anything I’ve overlooked?
@57. Richard: It’s the never-ending re-watch!
You list roughly 30 items, some not yet released, and its about 28 weeks till August (?). Ragnarok falls earlier than that in the timeline of releases, so I’m not sure if there will be skip weeks of there’s other films to be folded in. Think krad posted a schedule somewhere before.
Here’s Keith’s post about what’s upcoming over the months ahead:
https://decandido.wordpress.com/2018/12/15/looking-ahead-in-the-great-superhero-movie-rewatch/
This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but I don’t believe Frigga gets fridged. I don’t think her death is solely to motivate the menfolk unless you overlook how she dies. She dies the hero’s death, she defies the Allfather to do what she thinks is right, she is the true root of Thor’s ideals. We see Odin try to teach Thor how to be king, we see Frigga SHOW Thor how to live as an honorable leader. And if you view it post Ragnarok you see a Valkyrie fighting onscreen for the first time. To resign her death to fridging is to discount every choice she makes to remove Foster from her guards, steal a weapon, and use her magic in defense of a mere mortal. She clearly has her own motivation and agenda, that she falls in battle is a risk she understood.
Keith, I think you missed one more. The 1990 Flash TV series had a 2-hour long pilot episode, which I think would qualify here.
@53 I don’t think I’ve heard anyone else ever call him Christopher instead of Nick
spoonfan: CRAP! You’re right! I will have to add that one in at some point, too………….
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
Richard: I’m also covering the two Sin City movies, the two Kingsman movies, The Flash 1990 TV pilot (thanks, spoonfan!), Men in Black International, New Mutants, and the 1940s Dick Tracy films (which will all be in one post). At this point, I’m set until mid-October…..
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
Given that Sin City made the cut, how about 300?
Krad, Lois and Clark also featured a two-hour pilot…
@66/karis: Oh, that’s right! The Flash and Lois & Clark both had pretty fun pilots — it’d be nice to see them covered here.
@62 I don’t know him personally so I went with how it’s posted.
@53 I don’t think I’ve heard anyone else ever call him Christopher instead of Nick
Nah, 300 isn’t really a superhero movie by any stretch, it’s more historical fiction. As it is, I’m going to its breaking point with Sin City, but I figure that qualifies since I’ve done Dick Tracy and The Spirit…..
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
What about The Tick? It’s had two live action series by now, does any of them have a pilot you’d cover?
@70/OverMaster: Remember, this is The Great Superhero Movie Rewatch. There has never been a movie-length episode of The Tick.
Yeah, I’m sticking with feature-length pieces. I was going to do the 2011 Wonder Woman pilot with Adrianne Palicki, but it’s only an hour long, so I’m not doing it. Also why there’s no Tick here. :)
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
In addition to just wasting Eccleston, they wasted Malekith as a character. There’s plenty of potential for him — you could write him as a character who feels he was unjustly imprisoned by Bor, and his people subjected to genocide, so he takes his rightful vengeance on the next generation. Basically, give him the exact motivation that was given to Hela in Ragnarok. Comics Malekith is also a master manipulator on the scale of nations and individuals, as shown in his original appearance in Simonson’s run, and the “War of the Realms” story that just recently concluded in the comics. Not to mention Algrim making what he believes is a noble sacrifice to become Kurse, and much later turning to side with the heroes.
It makes me wonder if Loki’s increased screen time came at the expense of Malekith’s character development. Which is a darned shame, but without extra spotlight time for Loki, we’d never have gotten Chris Evans-as-Loki-as-Cap, which remains some of the best work Evans has done in the MCU.
@72/krad: I couldn’t even get through the Palicki Wonder Woman pilot. It was incredibly ill-conceived and totally missed the point of the character. I tuned out in disgust at the point where Diana was torturing that guy in the hospital bed for information even though she had the Lasso of Truth right there.
And just to put this in perspective, this was on the same day that I watched the ’90s Justice League of America pilot and the Corman Fantastic Four movie — and the WW pilot was the only one I found unpleasant enough to stop watching.
Christopher: Wow, nothing speaks more to how much you disliked it than your final sentence. :D :D :D
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
I actually kind of enjoyed the JLA pilot and FF movie. They were cheesy, but fun in a ’90s TV sort of way (even though FF was a movie). I have a pretty high tolerance for cheese, but the WW pilot was bad in far deeper and more unpleasant ways.
The only MCU film I would say was actually a bad movie.
It has good parts, mainly when Loki is on screen, but as a whole its a disappointment.
I genuinely struggle to remember much of this film and I can recall a general feeling watching it that it was riddled with deus ex-machine moments, the solutions not being foreshadowed and just appearing when convenient.
Definitely agree with the bland villain criticism. This is the most obvious example in the MCU as not only was the villain not making any impression during the film – they leave little impression after they are gone.
In general the film leaves little impression.
I felt like this movie is actually pretty coherent for a Marvel movie. The Iron Man movies are fairly discursive; they are more like character studies of Tony Stark. I would have a hard time describing any of them as a linear narrative, or what exactly the villains were planning. Even the first Thor movie has sort of an odd structure. The Dark World is relatively straightforward in comparison.
Krad, So, based on your looser definition of a superhero/comic movie (Dick Tracy, Red Sonja, Sin City), will you consider adding ‘The Losers’ from 2010? One could argue that the (super)villain’s weapon alone would qualify it. Plus, its got some superhero movie favorites (Jeffrey Dean Morgan, Zoe Saldana, Idris Elba, Chris Evans).
Jason: No, because it’s not based on a comic book. That is a hard and fast rule of this rewatch: live-action movie adaptations of superhero comics.
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
80. krad I thought it was adapted from a Vertigo comic. Huh, no matter. I shall accept your decision sir.
@81/Jason: The Losers is based on a Vertigo comic, but it’s not a superhero comic, so it doesn’t fit here.
Jason: crap, you’re right. Okay, may need to reconsider…………….
—Keith R.A. DeCandido
82. ChristopherLBennett The definition of “Superhero” comic has been fudged a bit in the last few weeks of this most excellent column, so I thought I’d throw it out there and see if it sticks. (insert shrugging emoji)
72 krad: out of curiosity , what’s your definition of feature length? I couldn’t find one on the introductory page.
The BFI and AFI say 40 mins or more, which admittedly seems short.
@45/ChristopherLBennett, Yeah, I realized after I left work that Tony Curran was not in The Punisher but was in season 2 of Daredevil, as the Irish mob boss.
@85/glori: For TV pilots, it would presumably be something that aired in a 90-minute or 2-hour slot instead of being a typical-length episode.
I’m not sure, but I have the impression that the Lois & Clark pilot was some weird length like an hour and 45 minutes. When it was later rerun as two separate episodes, I think they actually added some scenes that weren’t in the movie-length version.
Come to think of it, would Flash Gordon count as a superhero? The 2007 Syfy series had a 90-minute pilot, although it was cut down from the two 1-hour episodes that are on the DVD set, so it might be hard to find the movie-length version.
@83 Krad: For that matter, there’s Scott Pilgrim Vs. the World, right on the superhero borderline (and based on a comic, as well).
@@@@@ 63: KRAD! Language!
I remember rather enjoying T:tDW. It was an acceptable movie, even if it didn’t quite stand up to some of the previous Marvel movies. I didn’t see Frigga’s death as fridging, because while Loki and Odin are reduced to wanting revenge for her death, that is a justifiable response to her being killed, in combat, that she chose to enter, to protect the defenceless woman her son loved.
Yeah, the elves were a bit flat in general. The wanting to return the universe to darkness is all well and good, but would work better as a secondary thread, with a vengeance thread as Malekith’s primary motivation.
My rewrite – Malekith wants to kill Thor and imprison Odin, so Allfather goes through what Bor did to Malekith, returning the universe to darkness to ice the cake and rub salt in Odin’s wounds. Odin is also off-world, dealing with the chaos after the loss of the bridge. Thor and Jane still end up together in Asgard, but Frigga takes a more compassionate approach (including teaching Jane a little how to wield the stone’s power. Malekith arrives, Thor and the others engage him, Thor gets KO’d so Jane tries to help with her microscopic control of Aether, Frigga has her bad-arse-mum moment but dies protecting Jane and Thor, just as Odin arrives with Hogun to watch.
The rest can pretty much go as it did, extrapolating from that point, but Odin has a better reason to be the blood thirsty, mortal-phobe that doesn’t like Jane and will sacrifice legions to kill Malekith. Also, surely Odin would know that Malekith’s plan for returning the universe to endless night would require traveling to Midgard, so surely he and a legion or two would have turned up in London at some point.
The whole bit on Earth is too quick for the other Avengers to get involved, so they’re not needed, though it would have been hilarious if, say, Clint happened to be judging an Archery contest nearby (there’s actually a field archery club that practice in Royal woodland not far from London propper.. as in UK not far, not US not far). The snark would be a welcome lightener for a darker Battle of Greenwich.
@40 – krad: Yes, as BonHed said, I meant “Punisher” the show, in which Tony Curran played an Irish mobster from the comics (Finn Cooley). I would like to think you know I am aware that Tony Curran hasn’t played Frank Castle. :)
@43 – BonHed: Ah, I totally forgot that too. Or rather, I only took notice of Tony Curran in Doctor Who, and then in Defiance.
@45 – Chris: I stand corrected. It’s amazing how DDS2 feels like two or three shorter seasons in one, and one of the arcs is so Punisher-heavy, it feels like S0 of his show.
@46 – hoopmanjh: Good one, but that’s not a character from the comics, so I wouldn’t count it myself.
@87 – Chris: If he’s counting Dick Tracy, Sin City, The Losers, Men In Black, and Kingsman, he should definitely count Flash Gordon (particularly the Sam Jones film, just because I love it).
@88 – Ricahrd: See, while I wouldn’t count many of the films krad is including, if I did go by his criteria, I wouldn’t count Scott Pilgrim, because even though it has fantastic action and stuff that’s like superpowers; it’s not a story about heroism, but about relationships, with the videogame-y fights used as sort of metaphors.
Some of the Iron Man and Cap posts have a thread about Tony Stark’s weaponry and use of force, but doesn’t that apply equally to Thor? What took me out of this movie immediately is the bit near the beginning where Thor travels the Nine Realms to show the flag and put down the wogs, doesn’t he outright kill at least one “rebel” rock guy? I only watched this in the theatre, but I think Thor hammers him and reduces him to a pile of rubble. Presumably he has done this in other realms too, even if off screen. And the Warriors Three carry swords, not theoretically non-lethal, blunt weapons, so they would be just as lethal in a fight.
I also wish Hollywood movie makers would stop forcing actors to spit mouthful after mouthful of harsh sounding made up languages. Just have them use British accents and be done with it.
@91/vinsentient: The difference is that Iron Man nominally decided to give up making weapons of war and then kept on using them, while Thor has always been overtly a warrior whose epiphany was learning to fight for justice rather than personal glory. True, I prefer superheroes who don’t kill, but there’s a hypocrisy to the MCU’s Iron Man that isn’t the case for Thor.
I remember liking this one more than others seemed to, but I’ve always been into the fantasy aesthetic so I really liked getting to see more of Asgard and the realms. I find that the Phase II movies are overall middle of the road for me (Phase III had several solid home runs) but this movie is pretty solidiy middle of the pack. But I like it for all the reasons you mention already regarding the development of the various dynamics of the Asgard royal family. I also remember enjoying the scene where Jane is kind of geeking out over the science of the Aether while they are trying to heal her. I wish her character hadn’t gotten such a short shrift (for whatever reason out-of-univerise) as I feel – love interest or not – she had a lot of potential.
One of my favorite parts is definitely the Loki-imitating Captain America scene. I always get a kick out of actors pretending to be somebody else pretending to be them (My favorite might be Helena Bonham Carter pretending to be Hermione pretending to be Bellatrix). When it’s done well I always have that split second of forgetting it’s actually the imitated actor playing themselves (more or less) and not actually the imitator just doing a really good job.
I really loved Ragnarok so I’m interested to see what you have to say about it when we get there.
It’s funny, when this film first came out I rather liked it and thought it was better than the first Thor movie. Then as time went on and I heard everyone talk about how awful it was, I started to believe it. It definitely had flaws, and that many people couldn’t be wrong, could they? So I just accepted that it was a bad movie and carried on.
Then my Dad and I rewatched the MCU movies during the lead-up to Endgame. It was the first time I had seen the movie since it had been in theaters. I was expecting to slog through it like so many other people talked about. That didn’t happen. Instead, I found myself enjoying it again. Sure, Eccleston is criminally underutilized, but the rest of the movie is so entertaining that I don’t care. The dialogue in this is sharp, belying the work that Christopher Markus, Stephen McFeely, and an uncredited Joss Whedon did on the script. Natalie Portman is far more invested this time around, whereas in the first Thor it felt like she was sleepwalking. And Thor and Loki continue to be the best double-act in the MCU. Their scenes together are just as electric as any of the other MCU films, and remain a real treat to watch. Overall, I think this is actually the most fun of all the Thor movies.
So there’s a lesson learned. Trust your gut when it comes to whether you like a movie or not. Don’t just follow the crowd. I’m glad I got to learn that in such a pleasant way.
@94/pcarl: “The dialogue in this is sharp, belying the work that Christopher Markus, Stephen McFeely, and an uncredited Joss Whedon did on the script.”
I think you mean the opposite of “belying,” which means proving something untrue or contradicting it. Although I can’t think what verb would go there instead. Affirming? Revealing?